Loyalty Stories 31: A Fresh Breath of Loyalty – Alexander Meili

Michelle

Hi and welcome to Loyalty Stories, Antavo’s podcast on customer loyalty and loyalty programs. I’m Michelle Ellicott-Taylor, and I head up the global partnership team at Antavo. And at Antavo, we are a technology vendor that powers your loyalty programs. And we’re working with brands all over the world. We work with a variety of companies including retail, fashion, food and beverage, with brands such as KFC and Benefit Cosmetics.

In this podcast, this is called loyalty stories, and we’re diving into trends around customer loyalty and getting to speak to some key experts in this industry, where we get to pick their brains and learn what’s next for future trends in loyalty. So today’s guest is Alexander. Alexander, welcome to the loyalty stories. Yeah, thank you very much for joining us today.

Alexander 

Hi Michelle, pleased to meet you.

Michelle

Before we kick off, Alex, would you like to just give a bit of a background to yourself and your experience in loyalty?

Alexander 

Yeah, pleased to do so. Thank you for the invite for this interview. I’m pleased to do so. I’ve been in the industry for about 20, 25 years already. I started off with Freak and Fire programs from the airline side. There we had proprietary programs, but also coalition loyalty programs, which was very interesting. Then I moved over to a bigger marketing agency called ICLP at the time, it’s called now the Collinson Group, where we take care of many brands, many industries.

So it was a good coverage and also kind of taking care of the European geography, which was fascinating. So I got into contact with many programs. And after a while, I came back to Zurich, Switzerland, I started to work for BonusCard.

BonusCard is a company that has a partner network with a credit card, a kind of a coalition loyalty program structure and I was taking care of their marketing activities and further developing also that program.

And at BonusCard, we were eager to grow bigger in the loyalty industry and there we acquired new customers from the retail space and we run and we still do run their programs as well. So we have own programs and partner programs. Now I’m also active as a lecturer at the University of Applied Science here in Zurich and I teach loyalty programs.

Michelle

Oh, that sounds very exciting. So hopefully you’re going to get to teach me something today. And all of our listeners and watchers. So, yeah, to get started, and it’s always nice to ask this question to the experts. Can you give me an example of a Lordy program that’s like a favourite of yours? Something that’s really stood out for you?

Alexander 

Yeah, well, I’m a critical observer of loyalty programs. I know the programs, I’m not a full fan, 100% of any program, but I love the topic of program. What to give you an example, I like a lot, for instance, Avios, which is well known to your audience, because that currency is really valuable and it’s relevant at the time of your customer experience.

For instance, myself, I travel a lot with Iberia and also British Airways, and that currency is Avios. And there, this currency provides you added value in the process of payment, for instance, when you go at the checkout, you’re always being asked, do you want to use your points? And the points really value a lot. So when you see that the airline fare is high, then you have always the possibility to portly pay with your points, with the Avios.

And this pops out at the right moment, which is relevant and in a nice way. The customer experience is really nice. And I think this is very well cleverly done. In the whole customer journey, they introduce you with the right messages. So it’s a really added value. I like it a lot. 

And there’s another one, just quickly, that I like a lot. It’s a Swiss program of a grocery store. This is all in the app. It’s called Migros and they have a very good app, integrated loyalty and the overall grocery communication.

There’s not a separate app, it’s the joint app, loyalty and purchase information. And this is very well done because there you have your program, its relevance is very quick. And you have sub programs, you have possibilities to fine tune and to adapt to your liking. You can participate in quizzes, you have reviews, you have a cool coalition type of structure in it, it’s really well done. So these two programs are like most at the moment.

Michelle

Yeah, they’re interesting. I mean, Avios is one that a lot of people will know, and that’s a real benefit, obviously, towards the cost of a ticket, so with travel. So that’s always a well-received one. And then also looking at grocery, that’s something that people are familiar with, you know, across all sorts of regions. So they’re great examples. 

And what about, I guess, with the experience that you have working in loyalty for a long time, what about an actual loyalty programme you’ve consulted on for a concept? Is there a favourite that you have there where you’ve actually worked on a programme?

Alexander 

Yeah, I’ve been working on many programs. Just recently I was reviewing how many were about 50 programs I was working with, somehow consulting or developing. I cannot tell you which one is my favorite. I have some sympathies for the managers, of course, and also the geography. And every program is particular, it’s different. It has its speciality.

Michelle

Yeah.

Alexander

I was taking care of in Spain, which was mainly our hotels, and in Arche Hotels, and the ones in Portugal as well, which is a good variety, but I have no number one as such.

Michelle

Yeah, I know it’s a difficult question to have a number one. There’s usually a couple of brands that people have worked with that, you know, have really, it’s been exciting to work on. So, yeah, totally understand that you can’t just have one favourite of all the sessions you’ve worked on.

Alexander 

Yeah.

Michelle

So what about with your experience then with changes that have happened in the loyalty industry over the last couple of years, what do you see have been the key changes?

Alexander 

In the past, well, the mobile became much stronger, much more dominant. And it’s not just a channel. It’s really being used to engage the customers and more and more companies use it as a, as a, the only channel that counts. And this is, this is one of the big changes that I’ve been observing. Also data analytics is getting stronger and stronger.

I also observed that. We are reproducing a couple of good employees because they were hired by the competitors. So this is a very sought-after job that would be efficient in data analytics. So this has gotten more popular.

Also, the features that have been introduced, like in Avios, you have purchase points or transfer points or multipliers that can customize you as a member of a program. These kind of little things like software applications within the program that enable the customer to change or to parameterize the program. This has been new and typical for the last few years.

Michelle

Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting to see these changes happening. And I think, you know, over the last few years, loyalty has got more and more interesting for people, maybe to think a bit differently with how they’re working with it. So thinking about what you’ve said there with, I guess, changes that have already happened. And what about with the new trends that are coming in the loyalty industry? What do you see as things that would be, I guess, new considerations for brands in the next 12, 24 months?

Alexander 

I will not surprise you if I mention AI and machine learning. These are certainly topics that you have to take care of and to look at it and how you will make use of these supports. Don’t give everything to AI and don’t give everything to machine learning. There must be a human in between. So you steer it. Otherwise, it gets really like a commodity at the end. 

Michelle

Yeah.

Alexander 

But this is something that will leverage further leverage programs. This will certainly mark the big trends in the next months. And another topic that I like most, and I’m an advocate of it, is about the emotional part of loyalty. Like the emotional loyalty. Whereas we have been taking care in the last years of transactional loyalty, more and more people look at the emotional part of loyalty. 

Meaning, like honoring the interactions, not just the transactions, engaging the customers, type co-creation or gamification, just in a new way of engaging, this is certainly pursued more and more in the future, the near future.

Michelle

Yeah, I think the emotional loyalty is really interesting. And there’s that, yeah, there’s that mutual value, you know, exchange, and there’s that different buy into the brand that isn’t all about that next purchase. It’s about what are the other touch points that you’ve got with a brand there. So that’s been a very common theme with people looking at what are those different immersive ways that they can have that interaction with the customer.

Alexander 

Yep, definitely.

Michelle

Yeah, okay. So that’s something everyone seems to be agreeing is going to be evolving over the next few years. And I guess when you’re thinking as well about things like this, and the different ways, different concepts and strategies that come up with loyalty, and you need to be thinking about the platforms that can support that, what’s kind of front of mind with making sure you know, the platform can deliver the concept? 

You know, what are the things people are looking for? You’re recommending like, is it the ease of use? Is it integrations? Is it ease of implementation? Maybe omni-channel or gamification? Yeah, what are the kind of things that are considerations that are important for the platform?

Alexander 

You already mentioned a couple of these, which are important. But on top of that, further functionalities like, let’s start with campaigning, and also the dashboards analytics cater of KPIs. I’m a big fan of KPIs, key performance indicators, and to measure the programs. And you measure those on different KPIs and you have current KPIs, and then you see the system should allow also to pump in the target KPIs. 

So you see where you are from today to the target. And this could be visualized nicely in a platform. Is it on a dashboard or a scorecard? These are important elements. Also, the integration of mobile services is highly important. And the points calculation, be it tier level, qualification, requalification, the whole parameterization should be very important.

Michelle

Excellent, okay, well thanks for giving us that intel. And I also wanted to ask you about your experience with different regions, like do you see that loyalty programmes have commonalities, they are similar across different regions, or are there real differences and what should a brand be thinking about when they’re working in an international way?

Alexander 

Yeah, you should really take care of the different regional characteristics. So when you are in Spain, you’re not in Germany and there are some nuances to take care of. Just make the difference if you manage those details, little details in communication. Also comparing, once I was comparing continents, Europe versus United States. 

What is the difference in terms of loyalty programs there? Whereas the Americans like it to be to have like the what’s in it for me message quickly, fast and it should be tangible. Tell me what’s the win, what I get, whereas the Europeans are a bit softer, more on recognition, more responsibility based relationship, more the pampered way and the Americans are more direct and this reflects also the loyalty programs.

Michelle

Yeah.

Alexander 

Interestingly enough, a program like Hilton Honors is the same all over the place. They do not respect any regional differences, which is also a strategy. But what I noticed when I was teaching, when I’m teaching with the young students, now the Gen, the Generation Z and the Gen Z, I’ve seen also studies that they are more or less the same all over the countries. So there more and more these regionalities disappear with that generation. But the other generations do have some differences, yes.

Michelle

Yeah, that’s really interesting. And actually, I did want to ask you, linked to your Gen Z comment there, if you’re looking at somebody who is starting out in loyalty, like a junior loyalty manager who’s in their early 20s, but they want to aspire to be, you know, leading a loyalty team or director or consultancy or teaching like yourself, what are the kind of things that, you know, they should be thinking about in regards to loyalty and, you know, evolving in that career?

Alexander 

Loyalty is also for a personal career, a long-term thing. So this is not something that happens. You have to be cautious and patient. And I would suggest that they make the experience from everything, like the definition bit of loyalty initiatives and tactics, and the design bit, and also the deliver bit, that they see the whole cycle. And this might take a couple of years, but then when you have this array of experience, you are very fit to getting into a superior role. 

And I would also suggest to focus on three elements, three dimensions. One is communication, easy maybe. Data, not that easy, but this you can really make the difference. And then rewards. If you manage these three elements, then you’re going to be ahead of loyalty sooner or later. Anyhow, the market is brilliant and people sought after it.

Michelle

Definitely, yes, it’s a sought after role, both from the company’s perspective and the individual’s. And also, I guess, with the strategies and assignments and things that you’re getting involved with, would it be still driven by people sitting just in the loyalty team or just in the marketing team? Or are you seeing it’s evolving that there’s other decision makers involved, whether they are in different teams, exec level, like… Who gets involved with these, giving these loyalty assignments?

Alexander 

You mean on the client side?

Michelle

Yeah, yeah.

Alexander 

Yeah, this is interesting. This is maybe from county to county different. Whereas in Switzerland, it’s not that position, that top, top level yet. 

Michelle

Okay.

Alexander 

Whereas in other countries, loyalty is dealt really strategically. I’ve also seen that in terms of size of companies, this might be different. Whereas a company with more than a thousand employees, maybe then you talk to the CMO, with a smaller company below 500 employees or even smaller, then you talk to the CEO. 

But, mostly there’s a person in between and I’ve seen in the past months that person is more and more the CTO, the Chief Digital Officer. I don’t know why but they’re taking care of that topic so I used to talk to that person. The next person behind the CTO is the CEO but he is kind of the person or he or she in the middle.

Michelle

Yes, that’s interesting. Yeah, because obviously there’s certain businesses where it will very much be driven from a CMO perspective with the loyalty team sitting in their team. But there are these other touch points now and there’s more eyes across the business on the loyalty

programmes and obviously the ROI on those as well.

Alexander 

Indeed, but I just mentioned this, this is maybe something, you better talk to the CFO than to the CMO. And I like to involve, pretty soon, also the CFO and to convince the CFO about topics such as performance measurements of the program. And then there I see the willingness to cooperate also from the CFO side.

Michelle

Yeah. Yes, they’re very important decision makers. 

Alexander

Indeed.

Michelle

So yeah, we want them involved. Excellent. Okay. And then we’re going to wrap up soon. Thank you so much for your time. But I have another question. Before we finish, I know you’ve already touched on some of the favourite programmes that you’ve seen out there, but is there something in loyalty that has surprised you? So not necessarily being a favourite or anything, but just a way of working in loyalty that’s been a bit of a surprise.

Alexander 

Yeah, it’s… I’m surprised that there are still so many new programs arising. Like in the small country I live in now, Switzerland, there pops up every year 50 new modern loyalty programs every year. This for years now, so many new programs. I have the impression every second company has a loyalty program and this goes on and on and on and on. And I doubt that every program is working properly, but brackets close. 

This is surprising me that this is popping up like mushrooms. And the other thing is about crypto and blockchain. I don’t know. I think this would have taken off quicker or more impulsive or stronger. I don’t know where this is. This surprises me that this is a bit slower than I thought originally.

Michelle 

Yeah, that’s going to be an interesting topic to come back to in a few months’ time, I think, and see where that has moved to. Yeah, yeah. So is there anything else that you would like to share with us today? Anything else from, I guess, so much you’re doing in education and loyalty? Yeah, as a closing thought or piece on the topic.

Alexander 

No, maybe I like teaching loyalty at the industry and also at university I do this for and kind of bringing over the sparkle of loyalty fascination to the young people. This is quite satisfying because it’s a fantastic element, fantastic topic.

Michelle 

Yes, it’s always very exciting when people have got lots to say about it because they’re so interested in it. So that’s great. So thank you very much for your time today. Thank you for joining us.

Alexander 

Likewise. Thank you, Michel. It was a pleasure. Thank you.

Michelle 

Great and thank you for listening or watching our Antavo Loyalty Stories. Wherever you do see us please give us a like and please visit antavo.com to hear more about how we can help you with your loyalty platform and look forward to seeing you on the next series. Thank you.